Vance Dotson Reveals How to Make Debt Collectors Pay YOU!

Daniel Rosen  0:00  

Hey, Credit Heroes. Vance Dotson is back on the show. He has the most unique business I've ever heard of in credit repair. He is not an attorney, yet makes millions of dollars suing debt collectors, banks, and credit bureaus. And he's back today to tell us more crazy stories to explain a big update to the FDCPA and to share important legal cases and new tactics for your credit repair business. So you better stick around. 

So the big question is this: how can we take our passion for helping people with their credit and turn it into a successful business without taking loans and spending a fortune by bootstrapping it from nothing? So we can help the most people and still become highly profitable? That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answer. My name is Daniel Rosen, and welcome to credit repair business secrets. Okay, if this is your first time listening to my podcast, I give credit repair tips and advice on bootstrapping your business from nothing every week. So be sure to click subscribe now and get ready to start changing lives. 

Okay, let's get into this. And Datsun is back on the show today. And, like I said earlier, he makes millions of dollars suing debt collectors, banks, and credit bureaus. He is not an attorney, yet he taught himself how to win in court simply by reading endless case files and learning the FCRA from front to back. So you need to hear this if you have a credit repair business. If you are being hounded< by debt collectors, you must hear this. So grab a pen and paper because you're going to want to take notes. But first, I have to say a disclaimer here. Vance has a lot of knowledge to share. But I must remind you that Vance and I are not attorneys, so do not take any of this as legal advice. Federal law is different than state law. And every state is different. For legal advice, consult with an attorney there. I said it. Okay. Credit Heroes buckle up. This is going to be a good one. Please. Welcome back to the podcast. Vance. Dodson. Thank

Vance Dotson  2:15  

you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having

Daniel Rosen  2:18  

you're here. Thank you. I want to know everything. But let's start with people who didn't hear your story last time. Can you quickly recap how this all started for you? Like the one-minute version? I know you started when you had a car accident, right? So

Vance Dotson  2:35  

I had an accident, went to work, went into the hospital, didn't pay the hospital bill, you know, I started getting the collection letters. And in this case in, the same thing that I do today is record a call and just tell them the debt collector. I'm at work, and it's not a good time to talk. I monetize that case. And we've been rocking and rolling ever since.

Daniel Rosen  2:59  

Yeah. And from that, yeah, through that experience, you discover that debt collectors do many bad things. And they break a lot of laws. And those made money, right?

Vance Dotson  3:09  

Yes, they break the law every day. And the numbers are just quite scary. If you analyze the data, you analyze the numbers. We have a north of 285 million Americans. And it's an FTC statistic that says over 79% of credit reports have errors. And so no matter how you slice it, you still have millions of people. So that's a well-known fact. And so, say, for example, I've seen another statistic that said four out of five Americans will or have owed Midland credit management. And so then the numbers is pretty scary because last year Malin has sued north of 750,000 Americans. And so they're very aggressive with their lawsuit and scare tactics and reporting bad information.

Daniel Rosen  4:11  

So now, Vance, you've made a business out of suing debt collectors without being a lawyer. So how do you do this? And what's what makes it so special? Well,

Vance Dotson  4:21  

how do I do it is basically mainly through a cell phone. So everybody has a cell phone and calls a debt collector so you can review the information for free on their credit report through credit, karma or annualcreditreport.com. People simply don't understand the basics of the FDCPA. Or people may think they understand what a dispute really is. And once you understand the foundation and the fundamentals of the FDCPA, the consumer has a lot of power. So what I mean by that is the FDCPA is written up for the least sophisticated consumer, and the FDCPA it does not define the word dispute. So, the courts have gone to the ordinary meaning of the word dispute. The Webster defines dispute as calling it into question or to cash down. So that's the standard for disputing. And if you can understand that, that's really low. So it was a big deal. A couple of years ago, when the consumer reporting agencies collectively came together and said that, hey, we're going to, you know, delete these medical bills. So, if you do the research on medical bills, that's the number two reason why people file for bankruptcy. And so say, for example, if it's on your credit report, all you have to do is call up the debt collector. So keep in mind you already got a screenshot from Credit Karma, or you somehow obtained your credit report. And so you were just going to call the debt collector and record a call from your phone. And just, you know, just introduce yourself, it's really simple. Step two would be just to say, your disputes or your issue. And so let me point out to people that the date open, that's on medical bills, they referenced that, from the day that they got the medical bill, not the day, you went to the hospital. So a consumer can easily say, Hey, I'm unfamiliar with this date. Right? I don't I don't recall going to the hospital on this day. That right, there is a dispute. So you just say, Hey, I don't recall going to the hospital today. And then so they're going to, like I just said, the representative may say, you know, hey, yeah, that's when we get the information. And we report the information, something of that nature. And so all the consumer guides to do next is just, you know, gradually get off the phone. Oh, okay. All right, thank you. Have a nice day. Take it easy, just really simple. And so usually, the violation occurs 30 to 45 days after when they update it. A lot of people is in low-income housing. They're not articulate. And so the debt collectors typically don't pick up what the issue really is. And the consumers really dispute it. Got

Daniel Rosen  7:44  

it? Got it. Yeah, by the way, a few people commented on the last interview when you were here;, they wrote similar things they wrote. Now that we know these strategies, the debt collectors will change their tactics. Have you noticed debt collectors changing tactics?

Vance Dotson  8:05  

No. You have to understand that the debt collection industry is pretty huge. A lot of the people who viewed the interview did the information. No one did the steps or the method that I, you know, just previously, sir. Wow.

Daniel Rosen  8:26  

And you dropped a whole lot of gold on that show?

Vance Dotson  8:29  

Yeah, you can't say that information isn't out there. You can't say we don't have the information anymore. And so I'm willing to, you know, give out the information for free, but you know, the person got to execute on air in secure to evidence and then bring it back and let somebody finish the race.

Daniel Rosen  8:48  

Sure, sure. Now, as I recall, you started with your own credit, then you started having people coming to you who were being hounded by debt collectors, and then you started buying their debt right from them. And then you were fighting the debt collectors

Vance Dotson  9:06  

in this all over the United States. And so I'm not a lawyer. So the structure of it is the same as the debt collector's structure, Sure. Say, for example, we're going to use Citibank. One doesn't exist without the other; the consumer doesn't exist without the company. So, one doesn't exist without the other. Citibank can have all the credit they want to lend worldwide. The consumer says, " Hey, I want a credit card. So that exists, it doesn't become in existence into that exist, the consumer has just as much rights or equity in the credit application or whatever as the creditor. And so if the information goes bad, Citibank sells off its rights to a debt collector. Why can't the consumer sell their rights over to whoever Ever?

Daniel Rosen  10:00  

right? I never thought of it that way. Yeah. So that's

Vance Dotson  10:03  

that's how I did it for years. Because, to be honest with you, consumers don't have to say, for example, 1000s of dollars to pay for, for someone to pay for the service. And so that was the birth of what I call the assignment of the claim. And so it's the same thing. So when a debt collector goes to state court, still to this day, they're going to say, we got an assignment of the claim. So what's the difference? Of course, the debt collection industry teamed up on me, and I appealed the case and went up to the 10th circuit; the 10th Circuit said, Nope, you can't do it. And I'm like, how can they do it? You know, this is the same exact thing. So it's totally unfair. So the thing about it now, that's why, you know, I'm teaching people themselves to obtain that violation. And then also, still, I have a program to show the credit repair businesses how to monetize off of that same violation to help the consumers. That's

Daniel Rosen  11:05  

awesome. Yeah, a lot of people. They think that you can't find a debt collector without a lawyer. So, can you share a story about someone who thought this but managed to win anyway? Well,

Vance Dotson  11:19  

after the interview, it was really several 100,000 People that reached out, and things of that nature, about phone, email, social media, everything kind of blew up. There's a guy in North Carolina that he called me. And I said, Hey, man, I told him what to do when a debt collector is causing. And so just like on the last interview, I just said, Hey, record a call, and just say, hey, you know, I'm at work, and it's not a good time to talk. So he recorded it and made phone calls. And then he went to federal court. And I'm telling you, he has been knocking it out. And I'm like, Oh, my God. So I look at the information that I give people as an extra tool and a toolbox, I discussed, disputing the last one, and then that same method about telling a debt collector, that you're, you know, you're at work, and you can't talk. So typically, what that's going to do is that's going to put the debt collector on notice that it's an inconvenience for you. But this is the thing: they ignore it. So that's the violation on that second phone call, and to keep the days and the time that they call, you can monetize off it once you obtain the violation.

Daniel Rosen  12:44  

That's awesome. What should people tell themselves if they're scared to stand up to a debt collector because they've never done anything like that before for

Vance Dotson  12:54  

sure, don't run. So let's say, for example, an example of standing up for yourself. So you know that the debt collector is texting you. And so all you have to do is say, I refuse to pay. Just simply text that back. And so once the debt collector calls you, they write you, text you back, or email you, that's the violation. So you don't is real simple to fight back to the debt collector, if you know the basics of, you know, what's going on within the FDCPA. And then also regulation F. Yeah,

Daniel Rosen  13:33  

that's right. Um, one of the key things businesses and consumers need to know about this new regulation in the FDCPA.

Vance Dotson  13:41  

Okay, so regulation F doesn't compete with or replace the FDCPA. It enhances it, and it totally strengthens the FDCPA. So, it is giving more clarity to the FDCPA. A lot of things are in the law. Things become unclear when lawyers get involved in muddy and up the water. Right? So, what does this really mean? And so a lot of consumers just typically don't have the money in a means to hire a great lawyer to really fight on their side. Sure. So what the what the regulation f did was cleared up a lot of that and said, Hey, this is what this means. And so, say, for example, if a debt collector is writing, the consumer, they send what's called that Dunning letter, that initial letter that they sent to consumers. And then consumers can literally write back, you know, addressing the letter they just received from the debt collector, and just tell them, you know, hey, I'm disputing this debt. And the only convenient way to contact me is via email. And so you know, you sign your name and leave your address and your email, and then if the debt collector sends you a letter in the mail, that's a violation of The FDCPA. So, the consumer can control the medium on how they want to be contacted. And so regulation F made that super clear. And so I found out that that section of the FDCPA, also with regulation F, is violated heavily by the middle. is violated by a portfolio and LVNV. Often, wow, what's

Daniel Rosen  15:28  

the most common violation? You see, in fact, what are all the top violations you see from debt collectors?

Vance Dotson  15:35  

So the top violations are not marketing information, disputing it, which by far is probably the biggest one, and then texting the consumer. So the consumer has told the debt collector, I refuse to pay. And so they're going to keep on emailing the consumer. And so that's what we're picking up a lot email to the debt collector emails, the consumer about the debt, the consumer texts back and say, hey, you know, I refuse to pay. And next thing, you know, they're still calling a consumer, they're still emailing a consumer, and they're still selling the consumer letters. That's the common violations that I'm seeing. And so a lot of the times, people, they're trying these tactics, you know, disputing the regular normal way, you know, they go for a house, and then the mortgage broker, say, hey, we can give you this house, but you have to take this dispute remarks off of your credit report. So, in that instance, what a consumer needs to do is contact TransUnion, Equifax, and Experian in writing. I need to contact a debt collector in writing, send the communications and send the letters certified, and just tell them that you're disputing the completeness and accuracy of the information and to remove the dispute remarks. And so, like I say, you're sending that letter to TransUnion, Equifax, and Experian, and also the debt collector. And so once you get the reinvestigation results back from TransUnion, Equifax, and Experian, and they don't remove their remark, that's a violation of the FDCPA. Wow,

Daniel Rosen  17:30  

you make it sound so simple. What's, what's the biggest mistake people make when they receive a debt collection letter? And how can they avoid making this mistake,

Vance Dotson  17:40  

the biggest mistake is not responding. And so as I, you know, as I said, so as multiple ways to respond to them letters, I've met a guy from your interview, and he's in Utah and just simply addressed the letter to the debt collector. And he says I refuse to pay. He only sends out that letter to debt collectors. And he's making a great living. Just by saying that, just by responding to that,

Daniel Rosen  18:10  

and how does that turn into a great living?

Vance Dotson  18:13  

So statutorily? We're talking about $1,000 1000. Okay. And so that violation is the invasion of your privacy. This is called the invasion of your privacy and an intrusion on seclusion. If someone tells you, hey, Daniel, stop, knock it off. Right? They're telling you to stop. And so if you look into the FDCPA, many people will say, hey, cease and desist, right? But you don't have to do that. You just simply say I refuse to pay. Okay,

Daniel Rosen  18:51  

so then they keep hounding you that you've asked him to stop calling, but they keep calling or writing in ways that you said not to or texting you. And they continue to violate this. What next steps should you take, especially when you have proof?

Vance Dotson  19:06  

Yeah, so that's the biggest thing, right? So you grab the evidence, and if someone reaches out to me, we can go to the next step. So, I will hook up with an attorney that's in our area. I'm currently building a network of attorneys. We go to federal court, and we sue the debt collector for the violation.

Daniel Rosen  19:27  

That's amazing. Yeah, and pretty much every day, you're helping someone with this thing

Vance Dotson  19:32  

that I picked up was, I have to do something every single day, right? So if the day ends, why do I have to do it? I just make it a daily habit to sue a debt collector. Sometimes, I'll sue one. Sometimes, I'll do six. Sometimes, I do 10. It all just depends.

Daniel Rosen  19:54  

Amazing. Now, you've been some major companies in court, And those legal battles must have some intense moments. Could you share a story of a big win with an intense moment and a big impact?

Vance Dotson  20:09  

It's not a typical pleasurable thing to begin soon. And so many of the debt collectors attorneys take it personally, which I think is borderline offensive. So if I were to really pursue it in the law, I think I would prevail because there are the defense attorneys who say, Oh, he's practicing law. And I'm like, Dude, that's defamation of character. And I'm really not practicing law, you know. And so I'll beat all of the companies that I've been against, we'd be so like, you know, some of the top companies that collect that is Midland, and then portfolio, and then LVNV. And I'll find out that three companies just totally violate all the time.

I someone called me, from the last interview, and I thought it was unique. And so he's like, hey, about setting up debt collectors. And it threw me back a little bit. And I said, "Okay, hey, what's your name? He told me his name. Right? And I was just like, my phone is kind of messed up. What's your number? He gave me his number. And I said, So what's your problem? Right, so what should I do? And so he goes into his spill. And I said, Hey, okay, cool. Did I set you up? And he says, No, you did. I said that's the same exact thing that you go through with a debt collector. So I'm like, it's a conversation, so people need to understand how these companies are manipulating consumers. And I don't I don't I don't stand for it at all. It's

Daniel Rosen  21:51  

It's just amazing how deep you've gone into all of this. What a difference from you. We're working on oil rigs, right? I was working on drilling, drilling rigs. Wow. Unbelievable. From that to this, and you're so good at this. Hey, during your last visit, you highlighted some specific cases that credit repair businesses should study. You mentioned Hinkle versus Midland and the Ramirez case. Are there any more important cases that Credit Heroes should look into? Yeah.

Vance Dotson  22:23  

So, to dive back into that Ramirez case is so important that people articulate themselves very well when they're going into a federal court specifically. So that's a federal thing. And so Ramirez says, If you don't have actual damages, you can't bring the lawsuit to federal court? Well, a lot of people that, you know, do these lawsuits on them by themselves, they still typically want to offer $1,000. And I'm like, No, thanks to a Ramirez. Because if you really understand the whole Ramirez thing, it was because TransUnion said they fought back and said, hey, this person isn't damaged, right? This person isn't damaged. They can't do that. And so is a huge thing. super huge thing. So the way that you tell the debt collector say, hey, look, and Ramirez, they said, you cannot bring just a statutory claim in federal court anymore. And you have to pay my actual damages. So you have that $1,000. Mark, right. And so if there is no actual damage, well, then I can't bring this claim. So now we have to assess the damages. So you have to pay a little bit more. And so, in that case, if you analyze it and read it, you can use it against them, so it backfired on them on just the people who really know how to use that case. Wow.

Daniel Rosen  24:11  

Incredible. Hey, last time you were here, you mentioned you wanted to build a team to start to scale your business. Have you made any progress on that? Have you assembled a team?

Vance Dotson  24:21  

No. No, I still have a one-man band. One Man Band was trying to figure it out. Pretty complicated.

Daniel Rosen  24:30  

Well, I'd say you're doing awesome. Are there any major plans or goals you're working towards?

Vance Dotson  24:35  

Yeah. So I'm investing a lot into, I guess, information. And so going to the events, the first event or the event I met you at first, that was my first time going to any event. Oh, wow. So yeah, Mr. Mr. Brunson, put on a great show, you know, so I drink the juice. Good.

Daniel Rosen  24:58  

By the way, if you're listening in one Under what event, we're talking about Funnel Hacking live. It's where we've learned all of our marketing to grow CRC. So, have you been applying the things that you learned there?

Vance Dotson  25:09  

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So daily, I go on a three-mile walk every day. And I'm always listening to credit repair business secrets. I can't, I can't go a day without the bomb.

Daniel Rosen  25:24  

Well, that's awesome. What new tips or advice can you share for credit repair businesses and consumers?

Vance Dotson  25:30  

as consumer reporting agencies, they increased their technology to recognize disputes. So you have to come up with direct tactics that I use to help the consumer further because they're blocking the disputes, right? They're saying this comes from a credit repair company under the FDCPA. That's not a thing under the FDCPA. So once the consumer and or the credit repair company gain the knowledge on how to dispute directly and effectively, then you can get more results and, hopefully, more money from the debt collector to follow the law. Well, if you kind

Daniel Rosen  26:12  

of stole a letter from a credit bureau, and it says, Hey, we think a third party sent this letter on your behalf. It's a suspicious letter. Is that a violation?

Vance Dotson  26:23  

Yes, I would argue yes. And so I just, we just found a case like that a few months ago, and then it settled, was with experience. So the consumer got $4,000 from that letter, but this is the thing that you, the credit repair company, or the consumer has to know how to articulate that violation. And so if you don't know how to articulate, it is pretty much gone. Because this is the thing, the consumer or the credit repair company, they're not requesting your credit card information like hey, TransUnion, or Experian, or Equifax, we are requesting these credit card numbers, they're not doing that. So this is the thing. And this is where the people need to articulate themselves. They have prior knowledge of the information being disputed. That's the key thing to do with not requesting information. We're disputing information. And so this is the thing that's a violation of Section EB and then also Section I. So, they have to reinvestigate the information once the information is disputed. And so if you know how to articulate that, you will be victorious in winning that issue with the courts. What

Daniel Rosen  27:49  

do you think is the biggest opportunity right now for credit repair businesses to help consumers?

Vance Dotson  27:55  

Well, as I pointed out once before, 79% of credit reports have errors, so people just have to take the time to identify the errors. So we know that is Arizona reports. And Daniel does not joke. And seriously, that hurts me to the heart. Because if I were to ask you this question, Daniel, wood, wood, American Airlines, Southwest, Alliance JetBlue. Delta, would they be satisfied? If 1% of the planes went down when it went in the sky? 1%? Just 1%?

Daniel Rosen  28:38  

I would hope not.

Vance Dotson  28:41  

Okay, so why is 79% of these reports acceptable when we know that? So it really bugs me, it really, really, truly bizarre, because this is a thing like one error can cause somebody on a home purchasing. It can cost you literally hundreds of 1000s of dollars. Sure, literally. And so that's why I hire expert witnesses in some of these cases when these debt collectors are joking around and say, okay, cool. Look, we're at the point where, essentially, you're playing around with this $1,000 thing. And so let me hire an expert witness to really put some value to this. And then nine times out of 10, it comes back like this is worth $10,000. So that's very important. So say, for example. I'm in the Midwest and Oklahoma, where things just kind of spread out. So you have to get a car. And a lot of the time, you have these car purchasing decisions. So say, for example, if the Arizona report is going to drop your score, and it's going to cost you more to pay interest. That's not acceptable to me. And so I'm willing to hone in on that issue and bring it home to many consumers so they can really understand. But they just have to tune in and understand the error and a credit report.

Daniel Rosen  30:16  

Absolutely. I think it's so great that you're giving people all this information. Here, it's amazing. I want to switch gears for a minute. And I want to ask you some rapid questions. So, just answer with the first thing that pops into your head. Okay. All right. Okay. What's your favorite thing about being an entrepreneur? Connecting with people? What's the best advice you've ever received?

Vance Dotson  30:42  

Give value first.

Daniel Rosen  30:44  

How do you recharge when you need more energy? Disconnect

Vance Dotson  30:47  

from all social media platforms and turn your phone off?

Daniel Rosen  30:52  

And what are you most excited about right now? My family? Awesome. And last question. Where can our audience connect with you and learn more about your services? So

Vance Dotson  31:03  

I'm on Facebook. I'm on Instagram and all the social media sites. I know

Daniel Rosen  31:08  

your Instagram is at Vance Dotson. It's just your

Vance Dotson  31:11  

name, right? Yes, sir. And then, Yes, sir. Also, on Facebook tell

Daniel Rosen  31:16  

us about bad credit to cash. So bad

Vance Dotson  31:19  

credit to cash is a concept that I came up with. So consumers and credit repair companies can monetize off the violations from debt collectors. And so I want to extend that to the consumers and people that listen to your platform. So I want to give them a two-week trial and see if they can come in, understand the information, and also join the community and turn back credit to cash.

Daniel Rosen  31:48  

That's awesome. So, how do they access that? So

Vance Dotson  31:51  

once a week, what I do is I do a presentation and then give the people the offer to join the community. And

Daniel Rosen  32:02  

yeah, okay, and the address for that is go dot badcredittocash.com. Yes, sir. Awesome. Awesome. Vance. This was so much fun. Again. Thank you again for being here. And I wish you continued success. Thank you. Thank you. And for everyone out there watching and listening. If you find value in the things we share on this podcast, click below to subscribe and follow. Also, give us a five-star review or share the show to help us change more lives. If you'd like to read the show notes, they're posted on my blog. If you have a question or a comment, drop it down below because I read every one. And I'll respond as soon as I can. If you want a beginner's guide to winning more credit repair disputes, check out my episode, Credit Report 101. So take care, credit hero, and keep changing lives. Hey, everybody, it's Daniel again. And really quick, I'd like to invite you to join what I believe is the best thing we have ever created inside the Credit Repair Cloud community. And it is a challenge that we call the Credit Hero Challenge. If you're just planning out your business or just getting it started, and you dream of having a successful business of your own. So you can quit your nine-to-five and fire your boss and have financial freedom, or you can add another revenue stream to your existing business. If that's your dream, you need to get into this challenge. We created this challenge to help you create and launch your credit repair business to build a proper foundation for a successful business. This challenge is going to help you understand the strategy, the tactics, and all the things you need to be successful at credit repair. It is the greatest thing we have ever built and will change your life. So I recommend you do it right now. Stop everything, pause this audio, go online, go to creditherochallenge.com, that's creditherochallenge.com, and join the next challenge. And there's a challenge that starts in just a few days. So go get started right now at creditherochallenge.com